Thursday, 12 March 2015

hate and misinformation

From https://www.facebook.com/396687890511160/photos/a.397361740443775.1073741828.396687890511160/397360150443934/?type=1&theater

"There's a lot of hate and misinformation in there to tackle."


Try reading books, talking to people with diverse opinions, learning to think skeptically. In time, you can change, don't give up on yourself so easily.

Robin Morgan, Ms. Magazine Editor:

- "I feel that ‘man-hating’ is an honorable and viable political act, that the oppressed have a right to class-hatred against the class that is oppressing them."


"I don't have time for it all"

No time to address any of my points, plenty of time to repeat propaganda you have learnt however.

Valerie Solanas, Authoress of the SCUM Manifesto

-"To call a man an animal is to flatter him; he’s a machine, a walking dildo."

-"there remains to civic-minded, responsible, thrill-seeking females only to overthrow the government, eliminate the money system, institute complete automation, and destroy the male sex."


First, blaming all of feminism for a minority of actions of done by minority (of people who call themselves) feminists is incredibly extreme.

How on Earth do you imagine a tiny minority of people can have the political power to stop gender neutral rape laws?

A sane answer is that it's not some tiny minority; the leaders are the ones doing it, like the ones running the Gender Studies classes. The rest of you blindly go along with it.

Dworkin and Mackinnon are heavy hitters. Trying to pretend they weren't there is simply absurd.

Andrea Dworkin

-"I want to see a man beaten to a bloody pulp with a high-heel shoved in his mouth, like an apple in the mouth of a pig." —


"All sex, even consensual sex between a married couple, is an act of violence perpetrated against a woman." — Catherine MacKinnon


"In a patriarchal society, all heterosexual intercourse is rape because women, as a group, are not strong enough to give meaningful consent."
— Catharine MacKinnon, quoted in Professing Feminism: Cautionary Tales from the Strange World of Women’s Studies.


"Demanding that everyone that subscribes to being a feminist to be accountable to and answer for all of those actions is equally extreme."

Yeah, I never understand why people object to my marching with my swastika.

Why should I be accountable for what the other National Socialists do?

If you don't like what they are doing, you kick them out. You don't give them money, you don't give them jobs running NOW or Ms. Magazine. You get rid of them.

That's what honest people do.

"Not everything a feminist does is a feminist action."

You know a movement by what the movement does.

Saying "you can't judge us by our actions" is absurd.

"Feminists, like everyone else in this world, are human, and thus are capable of making mistakes in one place, while being 100% justified in others."

They aren't 'accidents'. These people were consistent over decades. Your movement had no problem with them - until now, when you pretend they were never there.

"If life is to survive on this planet, there must be a decontamination of the Earth. I think this will be accompanied by an evolutionary process that will result in a drastic reduction of the population of males." —Mary Daly, former Professor at Boston College, 2001.

"Oh I don't know why people object to my Nazism, everyone associates me with Hitler, but that was years ago, and he wasn't a REAL Nazi!"



"In short, all the ranting around that is nothing short of an ad hominem attack"

No, saying your movement is responsible for it's actions is called 'sanity'. Your arguments are idiotic.

Ad hominem is when I say we should ignore your arguments because you have a funny hat.

Haha look - funny hat!

Now I have to wonder - which movement does that again? Remind me.. i think it starts with Feminism - oh right, that's the one.




"it doesn't deal with the issues or the core tenets of feminism - which is equality for all"

The core tenets you just made up and which don't appear in most feminist literature and certainly don't agree with feminist actions.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qodygTkTUYM



""Our mission is to help people heal from and stand up to everyday violence"

Great! So they'll be fighting for longer sentences for female perpetrators, then?

Because helping people stand up to violence is important and violent females are treated with unfair leniency, thus denying their victims justice?

No? They aren't going to do anything of the sort?

" discrimination"

Going to end quotas? Oh, who am I kidding! You guys LOVE to discriminate on the basis of sex! The Duluth Model depends on it. Primary Aggressor Laws, anyone? Charge the man by default in any conflict?





"We aim to shift our culture to end the everyday violence"

which you have no evidence of - violent crime has been heading down for decades - unless you are counting 'feminist' violence, like when a man looks at a woman - STARE RAPE!!


" discrimination, and marginalization that people face due to their gender, sexual orientation, race, class, size, ability

Good god, you are just throwing everything you can think of at that one.

You stand against discrimination on the basis of ABILITY.

You think less able people should be treated the same as more able people? Sod that! If I hire someone, I want them to do the bloody job! It's not a charity! Jeez, i don't know if you are a Marxist or just completely ignorant of economics, because no country will survive long following your principles.


"We seek to create a more just world where we can accept ourselves for who we truly are"

so long as you aren't male because "masculinity is toxic"


" where we respect each other’s right to self-determination"

which is why feminists harass any woman who says they aren't a feminist


" where we nurture and are nurtured in loving communities."

while screaming your hatred at the cis-het white men.


"There is absolutely nothing in that mission statement about hating any gender, or, in fact, any mention of a specific gender at all. It is completely focused on being egalitarian."

Yes, the Communist Party of the Soviet Union wrote some very pretty things to.

KNOW THEM BY THEIR DEEDS, NOT THEIR WORDS.



"I don't know where you're getting your facts from, because they seem highly inaccurate."

As you said you don't check, it's not surprising you remain ignorant.

You don't have any facts of your own, i notice. No, the opinions of your gender studies lecturer are not facts.


"I've encountered a lot of these sorts of 'facts' before"

Reason and logic - who needs such things when you have Feminism?


"which comes from second hand sources"

That's a flat out lie. Do you even know what a primary source is?

" without outside links to source information "

the links are right there. You have to click on them. Use the mouse. No, the mouse on the desk. No, take it out of your mouth - oh, you swallowed it. I didn't know that was possible.

"that contain exaggerations and falsehoods "

You have no evidence of either.

You haven't read them because you think anything which contradicts your faith is automatically wrong - and you fear it might tempt you into the sin of *reason*.


" case and point using the term 'censoring' when absolutely no such call was made."

You don't have to use a term to do a deed. the Nazis didn't use the word 'genocide', either, but they seem to have managed it.


"It's factually incorrect. "

So you keep repeating - without any evidence. You sound a little desperate to convince yourself.


"I ask that you go back to the source"

It's still there.... look... use your eyes... click on it...

Here's anudder: http://translate.google.com/translate?hl=fi&sl=sv&tl=en&u=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.friatider.se%2Fforslag-gor-det-straffbart-kritisera-feminism

"such as your case of arguing against 'gender neutral' rape guidelines."

Oh, and i thought we were the uneducated ones?

http://www.jpost.com/Israel/Womens-groups-Cancel-law-charging-women-with-rape
http://www.firstpost.com/india/rape-law-amendment-where-are-the-cases-of-sexual-violence-against-men-384227.html

That took seconds to look up.


Counter-example:
http://mic.com/.../there-s-a-rape-epidemic-in-america...

And that's your idea of a primary source, is it?


Which is an issue that is brought forward by feminists as shown here:
http://everydayfeminism.com/2014/12/male-rape-epidemic/


Your idea of a reference is a feminist website pointing to another feminist website.

Huh!

"Also, what state are you living in that doesn't evaluate media? "

A free one. None of our media is evaluated as to whether it agrees with some state religion. If that is not the case in your country, then I pity you.



"There are warnings of sex, violence, language, age restrictions, etc. everywhere."

Community standards - not feminist ones. Most people aren't feminist. We never voted you in. Femninist Initiative only got 4% of the vote, for example. Even Hitler managed more than that.




" Do you go to museums and demand that they jumble everything up?"

Ok, that's called a non sequitur.

"Do you write Netflix and tell them to remove their categories of Horror, or Comedy, or Family or Children movies? "

I don't interfere in their business. You are the ones saying they must have all their works examined for conformity to your ideology.




"Sure, you might rally against anything being classified ever"

Strawman argument; I never said that.


"You might argue that some things may not fit neatly into one category"

Another one. This IS getting dull.




Sorry, I can't accept your 'we must rally against every imperfect system '

Well, i didn't make that argument - but .. uyou know.. most people do believe exactly that.. the alternative is accepting imperfect systems, rather than altering them to be more perfect.

We'd be extinct now if we hadn't fought imperfect systems. No fire, no clothes, no protection from predators? It was a very imperfect world - we rallied against it.



" That gets us nowhere as a species."

Are we living on the same planet?



"I'm also not sure what the 'feminist authority' is? "

Because you can't be bothered looking at the source I provided. It's called "deliberate ignorance". No, you can't make the train disappear by closing your eyes.



"And you brought this up in relation to whether game PRODUCERS have their ideas enriched or diminished by considering diversity"

Wow! Sudden change of topic! You wanna be careful not to get whiplash with that one.




"- there was absolutely no forceful demand that they create things from another perspective"

Except for the compulsory negative labelling. And it's not 'another perspective', it's "a feminist perspective". Won't have a lot of antifeminist views expressed in your system!


", and certainly no mention of any kind of authority overseeing production."

Still haven't checked the source I see.




"States have determined that certain products are harmful to younger audiences, but they haven't censored it."

Rubbish.


"They've determined that smoking tobacco is harmful to people, yet they haven't banned it."

Ok, were you hatched in some subterranean lair? Restrictions around tobacco are horrendous. You cna be imprisoned for selling it to a "younger audience", as you put it.


"Slippery slide arguments aren't very convincing "

I don't aim to convince you, mate. Your mind is jammed shut. You are terrified of the world outside - you can't even sneak a peak at my sources - it must be like the Necroniomicon to you, whispers of truths too terrible to contemplate, truths that will drive you to madness and ruin!

Well, sonny-Jim, it's not like that. The real world can be faced. It might take some advanced psychological care, but you can do it. Just step outside the hugbox for a few moments every day...





Also, not sure about the sources you have cited - the first being a translation via google of a pdf

Unless you can read Norwegian, you have to read the translation.

The source document is still there.


"and the second about someone disputing that they're anti-feminist. "

Like Christina Hoff Sommers - who was a feminist before you were born, and who has been denounced as a traitor by your third wave.



" Unlike your claim, feminism is hardly one brain-washed and indoctrinated mass "

So you aren't brain washed? Prove it. What are the counter arguments to your doctrine? What year was the Patriarchy discovered, and who by? Why were anti-egalitarians promoted and celebrated by feminists?


Why did feminist workshops, which could only produce a few books a year, produce works like "The Female Man" - a book about the genocide of all males.

(As sold in feminist bookstores everywhere!)

Claiming weren't 'feminist' is just a "No True Scotman" argument.


"Men who are unjustly accused of rape can sometimes gain from the experience." - Catherine Comins http://content.time.com/time/magazine/article/0,9171,157165,00.html



"- feminists have different opinions to one another on certain issues and argue amongst themselves all the time."

So did groups like the Communists. They were still very careful to brainwash the citizenry. They were never able to examine the core precepts of their faith as a result.



"Personally, I don't want to look up self-proclaimed MRA and show how some of them proclaim antifeminism, or any other hateful and harmful viewpoints."

so you've never looked them up, but you know they are hateful. Huh. Not brainwashed at all. Every member of a cult knows the religious works of every rival religion is not worth looking at and would only contain lies. Your response is identical.

http://equalitycanada.com/about2/mandate/

"Mandate

The Canadian Association for Equality is committed to achieving equality for all Canadians, regardless of sex, sexual orientation, gender identity, gender expression, family status, race, ethnicity, creed, age or disability.

In particular, we are interested in gender equality, that is on achieving equality for all men, women, girls and boys. While we support all efforts at achieving gender equality, we will work for balance and fairness within this societal project by focusing our limited resources on those areas of gender which are understudied in contemporary culture.

This has led us to a current focus on the status, health and well-being of boys and men, where attention, investment and support for educational and social programs stands at a level that is far from equal to the seriousness of the problem, while also being significantly underdeveloped compared to the resources in other important areas of social improvement.

We provide current evidence-based research and balanced information. We also provide opportunities to engage in furthering this cause by participating in discussions, events and family-friendly activities. We sincerely believe the goal of true equality and human rights is best served by conducting inclusive conversations based on facts and evidence, not by promoting ideology or special interest agendas."

Oh no! You read it! Quick! Shout "Listen and Believe" until the memory fades from your mind!




"Doing so would be the exact same thing as pointing to a self-proclaimed feminist who displays misandry"

this is called "policing a movement". That's the first step. the second step is not to appoint them as the head of a feminist organisation. That's the part you lot keep struggling with.



" The truth comes in the core values of the movement. "

Well, if words count, MRAs, as you can see above, are already feminists. Yay! But the truth is, values are revealed by acts, not words.

"For feminism, in it's current form, that is egalitarian values."

That's called "moving the goalposts".. if you only want to take the blame for the last few years of feminism, then you can't take the credit for things before that time either.

And you are left with the absurdity of the Nazi claiming his Nazism has nothing to do with the nasty Nazism of the past... just forget about that... they weren't TRUE Nazis.



"I'm not sure what the MRA folk want"

You already said you knew they were hatefilled and you wouldn't look at them.


"- perhaps you can share a source that espouses their core values "

Done, but as I said, words are cheap. Look up what Erin Pizzey DID. She lived a life of equality - and feminist hate her for it.

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