Thursday, 28 April 2016

Typical online discussion with a "nice" feminist.

I have these a lot.A "nice" feminist is one who sees the fact that they don't hate men as proof that  feminists don't hate men, or rather, that manhating is not typical behaviour of the group "feminists".

The argument seems to be "you are criticising a group I am emotionally invested in and that means you are wrong because it would hurt if you were right".

Feminist: Don’t say feminists are X because some feminists are not X.

Me: It doesn’t work that way. Some dogs have three legs. Dogs have four legs. You are getting confused about how the language works, rather than focussing on the facts of the matter.1

Feminist: You just hate all women.

Me: That’s a deflection. My character has nothing to do with whether or not what I am saying is true. You should care about what the truth is, and not about who i am as a person.

Feminist: Some feminists are nice! You say Feminists hate men!

Me: Feminism teaches man hating. Feminists appointed man-haters to positions of authority - the nice ones are not protesting the teaching of man-hating at universities, they don’t have interviews with the press, etc.

The very few exceptions, like CH Sommers, are not regarded as feminists by the majority - and it is that consensus and only that which describes who is and who is not a member, there’s no other entry requirement.

You had to go through a formal entry to be a Nazi2 - you don’t need to do that to be a Feminist.

Feminist: I'm not going to read all that.

Me: Ok. Contemplate the following:

1) Some dogs have three legs.
2) Dogs have four legs.

Now 2 is a generalisation. Is it false?

Feminist: That's different, dogs are beings. Feminism is a belief, a movement. Hating all feminists because of a few with extreme and arguably warped beliefs is so wrong.

Me: I hate Nazis. I do not hate all Nazis. I hate Feminists. I do not hate all Feminists. Dogs have 4 legs. Some dogs have 3.

Feminist: Your argument is so backwards. You've tarred feminists with the same brush but you're claiming you don't hate them all?

Me: Look to my actions. The keyword here is "ALL". Look through my writing. Have i said ALL feminists are X? Do i support CH Sommers? In words and in deed, I point to Feminists being X even if exceptions exist.

Feminist: Multiple times I've felt the same but I really can't take you seriously at all.

Me: Don't take ME seriously, my character is irrelevant. Focus on what is the truth. Play Devil's Advocate.

Feminist: Nah, I've genuinely lost complete interest in this now

Me: Nevertheless, in the years to come, you may find yourself able to look objectively at the opposing case. Until then.

Further reading:

1Is the following argument:

Dogs have four legs
Fido is a dog


Fido has four legs.

of the same form as

All dogs have four legs
Fido is a dog


Fido has four legs?

The answer depends on whether you think that

Dogs have four legs

 comes to the same as

All dogs have four legs

; and arguably it doesn’t.

Dogs have four legs is naturally read as expressing a truth – the same truth as is expressed by saying that dogs are quadrupeds.

But that truth is quite consistent with some particular dog having lost a leg in an accident or
even being defective and having been born without one—i.e. the truth expressed by

Dogs have four legs

is (so to speak) about the natural state of dogginess, and is consistent with
poor Fido departing from the norm

Taken from

2The Nazis went to great lengths to determine Germans who had pure Aryan descent in order to ensure a pure German nation. All kinds of criteria was used including caricatures showing Jewish types and the testing of pure Aryans by determining their genealogical Aryan purity.

This was for the express purpose of weeding out Jewish or other non-pure Aryan blood. For example, Germans wishing to join the Nazi party had to undergo rigorous questioning to determine their genealogy.

These documents show the methods used by the Nazis to exclude German Jews from all facets of German society. They were used to determine that an applicant for the Nazi party was a full blooded German whose parents and grandparents were also pure Germans.

To join the SS, one had to fill out an additional document going back to great great grandparents to determine a pure blood German. These documents show the extent to which the Nazis tried to foster a pure blood Aryan race.

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